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Published on November 30, 2008 By grokTheSystem In Religion

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like" (Sura 2:223; Shakir translation)

Is that a clear indication that a man can demand sex whenever he wants it? Or is that a misinterpretation. I've trying to find a definitve answer but no one seems to have a certain answer to this.

thanks to anyone with a final answer,

grok


Comments
on Dec 01, 2008

Your copy of the Quran seems to be a bit dodgy.

The whole statement reads:

Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

I think this is a clear indication that a man can demand sex whenever he wants it but with the caveat that he must do something good before and fear Allah over what he does.

 

thanks to anyone with a final answer

The final answer is that statements must be read in full and within context.

In this case it seems obvious to me that while a man is physically able to demand sex (description of fact), he must not do so in ways that would cause Allah to see reason to punish him (instructions regarding how to deal with the fact).

Don't forget that the Quran is not a simple list of laws. It also contains text that simply describes the situation the law applies to.

The Tora is similar in that regard.

 

The comparison of a wife with "tilth" is about value, not property rights. In Arab society owning a peace of cultivated land represented wealth. Referring to a woman as "tilth" back then is similar to calling a woman "honey" or "dear" or comparing her to valuable commodities like gold.

Perhaps a more modern interpretation of the text, with words adapted to western society and modern times, would be:

Your wives are the dearest to you; so approach your most precious when or how you will, but do something good before you do; and remember that G-d is watching you. And remember that you must explain yourself to Him (after death), and tell others about this.

I cannot see the Arabic text at the moment and thus cannot tell you whether the "you" is plural or singular. I think it's plural and refers to all men (and their respective wives).

 

on Dec 01, 2008

Thanks, but I still don't get whether a woman can refuse to have sex with her husband.

on Dec 01, 2008

Now c'mon! SURELY Islamic women get headaches too!

on Dec 01, 2008

Thanks, but I still don't get whether a woman can refuse to have sex with her husband.

Judging from the holy texts it appears to be the same as in Christianity. Note that in western countries spousal rape has only been made illegal in the last 200 years when societies became secular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_rape

As far as I know rabbinical Jewish law recognises sex as a woman's right, not a man's; hence spousal rape was illegal in Judaism while legal in western and Islamic societies.

It appears the west is 100 years ahead here. But on the other hand the Islamic world was 1200 years ahead with women property rights. 

on Dec 02, 2008

Judging from the holy texts it appears to be the same as in Christianity. Note that in western countries spousal rape has only been made illegal in the last 200 years when societies became secular.

It definitely depends on who and where you are. Indonesia has a growing women's rights movement and a strong history of female empowerment, particularly in Sumatra, but there are still plenty of places and people for whom freedom of sex isn't even a unreachable dream.

But there are religious scholars who argue that women have a right to choose too, and have a right to sex on a regular basis as well. Some of these scholars are women, but there are men too who argue this line.

As Leauki says, it's probably just a matter of time and opportunity before they take on some of the freedom and sexual safety-oriented bonuses of western society. Certain parts of the Muslim world, such as Iran, seem on the cusp of a new liberation theology which may well be the impetus, but it's impossible to guess when things will change.

I think it's also important to recognise, in a general sense, that people are much the same everywhere, and a good person is a good person regardless of their cultural background. While a holy book can be interpreted as allowing spousal rape, people don't have to live by that sentence. Christians don't attack Wiccans, and yet we are expressly required to suffer them not to live. Faith is a matter of finding the righteous path, not the pedantically self-righteous path.